Zakir Naik’s attack on Husain (A.S.) was three-pronged:
- He dismissed the battle of Karbala as a mere political battle
- He called Yazeed (L.A.), the murderer of the Prophet’s (S.A.W.W.) family, Razi Allah Ta’ala Anhu
- He held Imam Husain (A.S.) and Yazeed (L.A.) equal, nauzobillah
Similarly my response will be three-pronged too.
- The Prophet’s (S.A.W.W.) love for his grandson, his reaction to news about Karbala and the disctinction between good and bad
- I’ll post a little analysis of the battle of Karbala, who was the perpetrator and who was the sufferer
- Karbala in the Quraan
And maybe a fourth one:
- Yazeed’s (L.A.) actions after Karbala
This post will be a combined extract of two of my previous posts. Also, please read this first if you haven’t already.
Muhammad’s Love For Husain
The Prophet (S.A.W.W.) was invited to dinner. As he was walking with his companions, he saw his little grandson, Imam Husain (A.S.) playing in the valley. The Prophet (S.A.W.) went forward to grab him, but he ran away childishly. With a gentle smile on his face, the Prophet (S.A.W.W.) started running after him until he finally caught him. He then put a hand around the Husain’s neck, another hand under his chin, and kissed him. The Prophet (S.A.W.W.) then said:
“Husain is from me and I am from Husain. May Allah love that person who loves Husain.”
Source:
- Ansab al-Ashraf by Ahmad ibne Jabir ibne Al-Bladhori
Zaid, the son of Harith, narrates:
I wanted to go see the Prophet (S.A.W.W.) regarding a task. I went to his house at night and knocked on the door. The Prophet (S.A.W.W.) opened the door, while he had something hidden under his cloak. I told him about my task and when we were finished, I asked him: “O’ the Messenger of Allah, what do you have under your cloak?”
He opened his cloak and showed Hasan (A.S.) and Husain (A.S.). He said:
“These are my children and the children of my daughter.”
At that moment the Prophet (S.A.W.W.) looked towards the sky and said:
“O Allah! You are aware that I love these two children, so You love them too, and love those who love these two.”
Source:
- Tarikh Al-Tabari
Salman Farsi has narrated that the Prophet (S.A.W.W.) said about Imam Hasan (A.S.) and Imam Husain (A.S.):
“Whoever loves my children Hasan and Husain, (then) I love him; and whomever I love, Allah loves him; and whoever Allah loves, he will enter a heavenly state filled with blessings. However, he who shows enmity towards the two and oppresses them, I will consider him as my enemy; and whomever I consider an enemy, Allah will be his enemy, and will throw him in the hell fire where he will suffer forever.“
Source:
- Tabaqat ibne Sa’ad
Other events during the Prophet’s (S.A.W.W.) life include when Imam Husain (A.S.) climbed on his back while he was in prostration and leading the prayers in Masjid-e-Nabawi (Prophet’s Mosque). The Holy Prophet (S.A.W.W.) lengthened the prostration until Imam Husain (A.S.) got off of his own will!
On another occasion, he was delivering a sermon in the same mosque on his mimber, when Imam Husain (A.S.) entered the mosque and tripped on his way towards the Prophet (S.A.W.W.). The Holy Prophet (S.A.W.W.) got off his mimber and rushed and picked up Husain (A.S.). He then climbed back on the mimber and finished the sermon with tears in his eyes and Husain (A.S.) on his lap.
Another event is that on the occasion of Eid, both Hasan (A.S.) and Husain (A.S.) came to the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.W.), wearing new clothes but looking sad. The Prophet (S.A.W.W.) inquired about the reason of sadness to which they replied that they did not have a camel to ride like the other children. The Holy Prophet (S.A.W.W.) then got down on his knees and asked both children to climb on his back and hold his long hair as the reins!
Round and round he went in the courtyard of Masjid-e-Nabawi but still the children looked sad. He then inquired again about the reason of sadness. The children replied that their camel did not make any sounds, to which the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.W.) starting producing sounds like a camel.
Abu Bakar, standing close by, remarked:
“O Hasan and Husain, what a wonderful ride you have!”
To this, the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.W.) replied:
“Don’t say that. Say what wonderful riders I have!“
The Prophet’s (S.A.W.W.) Reaction To News Of Karbala
Whenever the Prophet’s (S.A.W.W.) sorrow was hard on him, he would take Husain in his lap and bring him along to the mosque, to the gathering of Sahaba while crying. His tears falling, he would display to them the infant Husain with the sand of Karbala in his hand and say:
“My nation (Ummah) will kill him, and this is the dirt of Karbala.”
Or he would take the dirt smell it and cry, with the mention of his murder and death, saying:
“The smell of Karb wa Balaa (sorrow and trial).”
Or would say:
“By The One who owns my soul, it saddens me: Who is this who kills Husain after me?“
Or would say:
“Karbala: the land of Karb (deep sorrow) and Balaa (painful trial).”
Or put Husain on his lap, with his red dirt in his hand, while crying and say:
“I wish I could express my self! Who kills you after me?“
Sources:
- Musnad Ahmad Ibne Hanbal, Imam Ahmad bine Hanbal
- Musnad Abu-Ya’la, Abu-Ya’la Al-Mousulli
- Musannaf Ibn Abi Sheiba
- Al-Khasaes, al-Nisaai
- Saheeh Al-Tirmizi
- Mushkil Al-Athar, Al-Tahawi
- Al-’Ilal, Al-Darqutni
- Huliat Al-Abrar, Abu-Naeem
- Al-Dalael, Al-Bayhaqi
- and many others via Ayesha, daughter of Abu Bakar
Narration by Ya’la bin ‘Ubaid, Musa al-Jahani, Salih bin Arbad al-Nakhei, Umme Salmah said:
Husain entered on the Prophet (S.A.W.W.), while I was sitting at the door. I saw in the hand of the Prophet (S.A.W.W.) something he turned over while (Husain was) sleeping on his stomach. I said:
“Oh messenger of Allah, I looked and saw you turning something over in your hand when the child was sleeping on your stomach and your tears were pouring.”
He said:
“Jibraeel (Gabriel) came to me with the sand upon which he will be killed. And he informed me that my nation (Ummah) will kill him.”
Source:
- Al-Musannaf, by Al-Hafidh Abu Bakr Bin Abi Shaibah, vol 12
Narrated Ali bin Mohammad, Uthman bin Muqsim, al-Muqbari, from Ayesha:
While the Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.W.) was lying down, Husain (A.S.) came crawling towards him so I moved him away from the Prophet (S.A.W.W.) and I got up to do something. But Husain (A.S.) got close to the Prophet (S.A.W.W.) and he woke up crying. So I said:
“What makes you cry?”
He said:
“Jibraeel showed me the sand on which Husain will be killed. The anger of Allah is great on whomever sheds his blood.“
He opened his hands, in which was a grab of sand. He said:
“Oh, Ayesha, by the One who has my soul is in His hands, it saddens me! Who is this from my nation (Ummah) who kills Husain after I am gone?“
Source:
- Al-Taba’qat al-Kubra, Ibne Saad (Tabaqat Ibne Saad)
When Ali (A.S.) passed by Karbala in his march to Siffin and lined up with Nainawa, a village on the Euphrates, he stopped and called one of the men:
“Tell Aba-Abdillah (Husain ) what this land is called.”
He said:
“Karbala.”
Then Ali (A.S.) cried until the earth was wet from his tears. He then narrated:
I entered on the messenger of Allah (S.A.W.W.) and he was crying. So I asked what made him cry? He said:
“Gabriel was with me, just now, and informed me: that my son Husain will be killed at the banks of Furaat (River Euphrates) at a place called Karbala. Then Gabriel grabbed a handful of dirt and let me smell it. So I could not help it, my eyes overflowed.”
Sources:
- Tabaqaat Ibne Saad
- Masnad Ahmed Ibne Hanbal
- Al-Musannaf, Ibne Abi Shaibeh, vol 12
- Al-Moejam Al-Kabeer, Al-Tabarani, vol 1
- Tareekh Al-Shamm, Ibn Asakir
The Distinction Between The Good And The Wretched
The Prophet (S.A.W.W.) said:
“Through me, you (people) came to awareness, with Ali you found the way and were guided, all good came to you through Hasan, however, your happiness and wretchedness is with Husain. Be aware that Husain is one of the doors of paradise. Whoever shows enmity towards him will be deprived from the scent of paradise.“
Source:
- Morooj al-Dhahab and Ma’adin al-Jawhar, Ali ibn al-Hussian ibn Ali Masoudi, Matba’at al-Sa’adah
So let me conclude by asking Mr. Zakir Naik, where does your allegiance stand? Husain, or Yazeed?
دے صبا جا کے رسولِ عربی کو یہ پیام
اے حضور آپ پہ دنیا کے درود اور سلام
سایہء گنبدِ خِضریٰ میں کہاں تک آرام
اٰٹھیئے اٰٹھیئے کہ عیاں حشر کے ساماں ہیں تمام
غضبِ حضرتِ باری کی فراوانی ہے
سنگِ بنیادِ زمیں کشتیءِ طوفانی ہے
Just love the “Ghazab-e-Hazrat-e-Bari” phrase. It depicts the time when Allah was enraged of His own Will…
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I know… but, we can’t gather honey if we kicked the beehive away! ;p
We didn’t, he did!
Yup, i can see that… but, though i was all in the discussion, i thought u shouldn’t have asked the question regarding Khilafat being a part of religion or not; they weren’t of that level, simply! They wouldn’t answer such ‘technical’ question; see, how they bypassed it
Ali!!!! What’s that?? Seedhi tarha bol k main comment na post karoon… lekin ye moderation ki authority kia mere ooper hi execute karni hai???
Abe sorry yar. It’s an automatic plugin that’s been a real pain in the a** with Wordpress 2.7. But it also catches spam so it’s effective too. Don’t mind it.
Oh man, incompetentness dies here. I posted such a long reply supporting them through hadees and still you are stuck at that question?
Calling me filth, kiddo or whatever is just signs of your defeat. 2×2 lad is trying to preach religion. Its doesnt get any funnier does it?…By the way a little lesson of english for you. You never add title with anyones first name. It always goes with surname. So calling m Mr. Ash shows how ill equipped you are.
Before preaching comes practicing which obiviously you do only in Moharram. In the rest of the months you probably just are depressed with your sad love life , having fags and feeling sorry for your lame luck…tick tock tick tock…Syed Ali W Jafri, think outside the shiaism box and you will see the realities of world…Fibbing doesnt help, try to ask your inner self if you are on the right part, put some sense into your current practice and Insha Allah you will realize the righrs and wrong….
I fail to understand a few things about your sect…
why do you have a different Kalma? why do you pray to khaak-e-karbala? No doubt Hazrat Hussain (R.A) was dear to Prophet Mohammad (P.B.U,H) and that even bring more respect to Hazrat Hussain (R.A) but Hazrat Ayesha (R.A) was dear to Prophet Mohammad (P.B.U.H) as well and so was Hazrat Abu Bakkar Siddiqi (R.A) and the rest…where does your respect go then????
@Amir
Lets be Frenz?
I dont have anything personal against any shia, its the drama and the fabrications which annoy me and my fight is against the believes and it will always be there. If I see you as another human being then I have nothing against you…
by the way, its just a discussion, neither you will change your believes for me nor will I for you…. Insha Allah day of judgement will see Me standing on the right side….
Oh man, incompetentness dies here. I posted such a long reply supporting them through hadees and still you are stuck at that question?
Calling me filth, kiddo or whatever is just signs of your defeat. 2×2 lad is trying to preach religion. Its doesnt get any funnier does it?…By the way a little lesson of english for you. You never add title with anyones first name. It always goes with surname. So calling m Mr. Ash shows how ill equipped you are.
So you’re giving English lessons now?
Here are a few for you:
1) It’s incompetence, not incompetentness.
2) How the heck am I supposed to know what your first name is or your last name for that matter. For me you are Ash, literally. And I don’t mean Ashwariya so control the laddoos popping in your heart.
I never called you filth. But then again, you’re an English professor.
As for your hadees and references, I asked a question using one of them didn’t I? And you still haven’t satisfied me with an answer.
And when all else fails, start babbling on my love life and stuff. You have no idea how lucky I feel. I mean, I could’ve been you!
And I did think outside the Shiaism box Mr Ash, I gave you references from Sunni sources but you refuse to check and verify them. Instead, you keep calling them sources that were fabricated by Shias, so it looks like your Sunni box is getting smaller and smaller. Soon enough there will be nothing left except you.
If you care to look at our Kalima, you will find that it is similar to yours, except for the Ali an Waliullah part. We do believe in the Sunni Usool-e-Din that are required to be a Muslim but do you know what they are? We just have one more: Imamat.
As for Hazrat Ayesha and Hazrat Abu Bakar, you seriously haven’t gone through our books. I’ll give you a hint: do some research on the topic ‘Fadak’.
I am soo lucky I am not a lame one like you.
I am soo lucky that I am not shia like you.
I am soo lucky that my ancestors have come from where yours came.
I am soo lucky that my parents didnt lie about history to me.
You are sick in the head matey and about english, well incompetentness might not be a word but it fits your weakness.
Mr Ash , hahah laddo dont pop up in my head for Ashwariya Rai. Its kuffar to think about other women and I dont do it may be you do. oo by the way do read the following. I am off for another trip not back for 2 weeks. Please dont think it as your win. As long is your kuffar is there I will be there to fight it…
Kuffar ka badshah ban ker woh,
Deen ka sabak deytay hain,
hath rakho dukhti ragh per,
tu cheekh tu cheekh ker mujh say sawal kertay hain,
hai alag hi maslay teri kaum kay,
lanat dii khuda nay aur phir bhi apany app ko musalman kehtay hain,
kitabi batoon ka damaan choor ker,
insaan ki ankh say dekh,
koee wajah hay kay loog shiyaoon ko haiwan kehtay hain.
Pochtay ho sawaal kiyun mujh say,
jab khud jawab sunnay kay kail nahin,
tuhmatein tu hum bhi laga saktay hain mager,
koee wajah hai kay hum apnay app ko musalmaan kehtay hain,
Anyone who corrupts MY religion with your barbarism, drama, lies, deceit etc deserves the dust and you will bite it Insha Allah. Your kaum invited Hazrat Hussain (R.A) to kufa and then you betrayed HIM. That is how your maslak was in the past and that how is you will all be…Jhotay, Faraybi, Maqar, Muttaa kernay walay, Kalma kharab kernay walay, Azaan kharab kernay walay, Hazoor kay kareebi logoon ko gali deynay walay…Tum loog Insha Allah sari zindagi issi terha phitkaar main mertay rahoogay….
Until next time more Lanat for you and your kaum…
Indeed Mr. Ash, another crappy comment by you. I don’t think I’ll fall to the depths of indecency as you have done, probably because I don’t have to console myself about my beliefs by trying to trash others’. As for your win or my loss, people can see that for themselves. I haven’t resorted to trash talk whereas you have. That’s the most prominent sign of defeat in a debate, in case you’re not aware of the rules.
As for further comments, I shall reply only if they contain some substantial point in your favor or the answer to my question above.
Wahabi like Ash are the bane of Islamic world. They are cancerous lump in the Muslim world. They need to be eliminated. Starting with confronting their perverted ideology. They are threat to global peace and security. Abu Sufiyan, Muawiya, Yazeed they were all bastard because they were born out of wedlock.
From what I have read at wikipedia, fadak was land over which there was a dispute.
shiite muslims believe the prophet gave it to her as a gift and abu bakr withheld it from her. she is believed to be infallible and hence logically it is considered that it is abu bakr who is at fault.
sunni muslims believe that since she claimed the land immediately after the prophets deat, adn that abu bakr had the authority to keep it from her, fatima must have considered it inheritance. but since the prophets are not beleived to have followed the normal traditions of inheritance, this does not apply. they say it could not have been a gift since if it was, she would not have waited till the prophets death, nor would abu bakr have been in any position to declare judgement on it.
the sunni part makes more sense to me.
but once again i wonder, is this argument really worth the time? even if one side or the other is conclusively proved to be accurate in their historical accounts, what is gained?
@Ash
“why do you have a different Kalma?”
What makes you think that YOUR kalma is the ‘original’ one by default? I mean we could change the course by putting question the other way round: Why do Ahl-e-Sunnat have a different kalma?
Ash, I do need an answer to this question.
Again: “its the drama and the fabrications which annoy me..”
I wouldn’t reject you flatly, like Ali did
Actually, Ali, there were fabrications; will you reject this fact? See, you have a complete tenure of Banu-Ummaiya in which there were complete ‘campaigns’ FOR fabrications.. Can’t you see there are hundreds of books packed with such fabricated history and ahadiths?
Once again: “I am soo lucky that my parents didnt lie about history to me.”
‘coz they were told the same that they transferred to you, dear
“Jhotay, Faraybi, Maqar, ….”
Hope yours is ‘thanda’ after you threw those Urdu waly kalimat to all Shias…
This reminds me of a sth my professor at KU narrated: My friend lives in the UK. He speaks English quite fluently. But, he always says, ‘jab tak gaaliyan Urdu main nahin deta, kalejy ko thandak nahin milti..’
“Until next time more Lanat for you and your kaum…”
Rather say, ‘Jhooton per Allah ki laanat!’ I’m with you.
@SAWJ
Good that you didn’t comment in response.
@Ali Hassan
I’m sorry that your comment has the answer regarding query about Fadak but you failed to realize it; Bibi Fatima(sa) was definitely ‘infallible’, which means, I hope you know, means that there not a single chance that she(sa) could make a mistake.
Now, on the one hand, we have this Masooma(sa) who claims to own Fadak; on the other, we have Abu Bakr who is, no doubt, fallible and can make mistakes and blunders as a common human being does.
The die is cast, man! Even if Bibi Fatima(sa) – ma’azAllah – made a mistake by claiming ownership of Fadak, her quality of being Masooma (the one who can never make a mistake), which is confirmed by Qur’an (read Ayaa-e-Tat’heer) as well, makes it LOUDLY CLEAR that she’s the one who is right in this case. I hope this simple logic would prove my point.
Quoting: “even if one side or the other is conclusively proved to be accurate in their historical accounts, what is gained?”
Brother, by clearing this case, we’d be a step closer to identify the only sect which, according to Prophet(saww) is destined to Jannat… and, if we could make out who’s the right one in this case, we’d be able to keep away from having ‘two’ points of view which hinder us from recognizing the ‘Allah ki rassi’ (rope) that binds us together by helping us keeping many sects in the religion.
@Ash
I will miss you
@SAWJ
You have generated a digital manazra here. Yet, it’s sad to see that we don’t have any competent person from the other side who could analyze things we say…
@Ali Hasan: Fadak is an area that lies between Madinah and Khyber. On the way back from the battle of Khyber, after Hazrat Ali (A.S.) had conquered the seven forts, the Jews of Fadak met Rasoolullah (S.A.W.W.) half-way and offered half of their properties in return for amnesty from him.
“And render to the kindred their due rights, as (also) to those in want, and to the wayfarer: But squander not (your wealth) in the manner of a spendthrift.” (17:26)
Following the above freshly revealed verse, the Prophet gave Fadak to his daughter Fatimah (S.A.) as a pay back for the kindness, generosity and help of her mother Lady Khadijah (S.A.) whose entire fortunes had been spent on the nourishment of Islam and Muslims.
Fadak was taken away by the first Caliph, given back by Umar Ibne Abdul Aziz, taken back by Yazid bin Abdul Malik, Saffah Abbasi gave it back, Mansoor-e-Do-Anaqi took it away, Mehdi Abbasi gave it back and then Moosa Ibne Hadi Abbasi took it away again. This to and fro motion shows that Fadak was indeed considered to be Bibi Fatimah’s (S.A.).
Now you say that “since the prophets are not beleived to have followed the normal traditions of inheritance“.
Please read the Quran. It’s filled with verses where one prophet inherited from another, not prophet-hood but worldly things. For example, Hazrat Suleiman (A.S.) inherited one thousand horses from Hazrat Daud (A.S.). The Quran stands testament to the fact that Hazrat Yahya (A.S.) was the heir of Hazrat Zakariya (A.S), Hazrat Yousuf (A.S.) was the heir of Hazrat Yaqoob (A.S) and Hazrat Ishaq (A.S.) was the heir of Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S). Rasoolullah (S.A.W.W.) inherited five camels, one herd of sheep, one slave Shiqran, a sword named Masoor, house and a maid named Um-me-Aiman from his father Hazrat Abdullah (A.S.). Are these not the normal traditions of inheritance? Why is it that when it comes to Bibi Fatimah (S.A.) and Fadak, all the normal traditions of inheritance stop applying to the Prophet (S.A.W.W.)?
Please read this if you want more: Answering Ansar – Fadak. But please note that I am not responsible for whatever you may come across. You must do it of your own accord and will. I do not intend to delve into a debate at this point and this comment is as far as I’ll go. Thanks.
SAWJ:
i didnt say you were wrong. with the information present and logical thought, it just makes more sense to me. if it was indeed a gift given by the prophet in his lifetime, abu bakr ki koi hesiyat nahin banti wapas lene ki.
i wasnt there and historical accounts dating back to pre-modern methodologies of data accumulation are something i choose not to trust blindly. which is why i dont care to pass judgement on this.
AamirRiaz and readers in general:
dude, call me ignorant but i dont really care which of the prophets family is truly destined for jannat. my point is that this is an argument about history. people may feel more strongly about it since it is related to their faith and such lekin it is what it is. nearly all shia-sunni disputes are a battle involving who has more citations for their data.
all im saying is that whenever i think about what Allah would consider to be the greater issue muslims should be dealing with, it isnt this discussion over descendance. there are really too many separations already. this is not needed.
so far as i am concerned, the main purpose of being a muslim is to be a good person with respect to morality, ethics and the prevalent times.
if all of you, sunni and shia, are so concerned about proving yourselves in the eyes of your God, send donations to palestine, help the needy and dispel false accusations against your religion. that will be seen by your Lord with much greater approval than this dispute.
i for one will always prefer to be recognised as a muslim and not a shia or a sunni. there is but one islam, one quran and one prophet. sadly if i were to promulgate this stance and agar koi ghalti se maan bhi le, jis tarah ki duya hai that would probably create a new sect.
i wont be posting here anymore.
Your opinion is respected.
Your opinion is respected.
The rest is silence!! [eChO]
Is it?
He claimed to be going on a vacation for two weeks.
Granted!
Couple of things to reply here. Shias and Sunnis have some lovely beliefs that need to be addressed. (I am a sunni by the way)
Assertion 1 – “What makes you think that YOUR kalma is the ‘original’ one”
There is only ONE shahada.. that is given in Quran by Allah himself.
3:18 – Allah (Himself) is Witness that there is no Allah save Him. And the angels and the men of learning (too are witness). Maintaining His creation in justice, there is no Allah save Him the Almighty, the Wise.
The shahada is ‘There is no god but God”. No additions whatsoever. Shias and sunnis should not have problems with God telling them what shahada is right? Or you both would be asking God what is His source?
Assertion 2 – “Bibi Fatima(sa) was definitely ‘infallible’, which means, I hope you know, means that there not a single chance that she(sa) could make a mistake.”
Bibi Fatima was a human being. She was not an angel. She could have committed mistakes. EVEN Prophet Muhammad made mistakes! Why do you think God keeps telling us that he was a human being! To quote.. He got perturbed when a blind man came to him while he was in audience with an influential person.
80:01 – (The Prophet) frowned and turned away,
80:02 – Because there came to him the blind man (interrupting).
80:03 – But what could tell thee but that perchance he might grow (in spiritual understanding)?-
And.
66:01 – O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts …
All portraying him to be more of a human being. This is not done to ‘lower’ his status but that people should not start to idolize him.
18:110 – Say: I am only a mortal like you. My Lord inspireth in me that your Allah is only One Allah …
Assertion 3 – by clearing this case (whether sunni or shia is right), we’d be a step closer to identify the only sect which, according to Prophet(saww) is destined to Jannat…
Just like Jews, who keep repeating that they are the inheritors of paradise, shias and sunnis parrot this often. God asks them a simple question.
2:111 – And they say: “None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian.” Those are their (vain) desires. Say: “Produce your proof if ye are truthful.”
So what proof do sunnis and shias have they are the chosen ones? God and His religion Islam are way democratic then todays muslims wildest beliefs. I’ll tell you something that will literally shock you. According to Quran.. ‘anyone’ can enter paradise – regardless of their religion! Only criteria is belief in one God.
2:62 – Lo! Those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans – whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right – surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
So stop fooling around with “God is in love with me only” crap.
Assertion 4 – Prophets Lineage (I am a syed!)
This is a joke. I swear by God. Noah could not save his son. Prophet Abraham could not save his father. Lot could not save his wife and you guys expect that Prophet Muhammad will save us? and why would he do that? Just becasue a person is a syed (shia or a sunni)? The only criteria in front of God is this..
49:13 – O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into
nations and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you ..
God will not check who is a Syed. He will not check your lineage. Prophet can not save you. No one is given precedence due to it. No one becomes a ‘true knowledge’ source if he/she is a syed.
Assertion 5 – Please read the Quran. It’s filled with verses where one prophet inherited from another, not prophet-hood but worldly things.
Wrong. No one ‘inherits’ prophethood. Its God will whom he chooses for prophethood.
16:02 – He sends down His angels with inspiration of His Command, to such of His servants as He pleaseth,
Assertion 6 – For example, Hazrat Suleiman (A.S.) inherited one thousand horses from Hazrat Daud (A.S.). The Quran stands testament to the fact that Hazrat Yahya (A.S.) was the heir of Hazrat Zakariya (A.S), Hazrat Yousuf (A.S.) was the heir of Hazrat Yaqoob (A.S) and Hazrat Ishaq (A.S.) was the heir of Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S). Rasoolullah (S.A.W.W.) inherited five camels, one herd of sheep, one slave Shiqran, a sword named Masoor, house and a maid named Um-me-Aiman.
There is no information in Quran like that wherein worldly inheritance was discussed.
Assertion 7 – Prophet Muhammad was a foreseer. He knew what will happen to his grandson.
Quran states that Prophet Muhammad was not a foreseer nor had knowledge of unseen (ilm e ghaib)
6:50 – Say: I do not say to you, I have with me the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; I do not follow aught save that which is revealed to me…
God’s opinion stands diametrically opposite to what shias an sunnis believe in. But hey.. you guys have a right to your beliefs. So carry on fighting
[...] this and this [...]
@SAWJ
Another fabrication. I said a trip not vacations. A trip doesnt classify as a vacation. I am away with work (unlike you, I have job to go to. LOL). By the way good work by Post Man.
Its sickening that you are question Kalma-e-Tayyaba. May Allah guide on the right path.
Meeting time!
3:18 – Allah (Himself) is Witness that there is no Allah save Him. And the angels and the men of learning (too are witness). Maintaining His creation in justice, there is no Allah save Him the Almighty, the Wise.
For belief in the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.W.):
Say: “O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided.” (7:158)
“Bibi Fatima(sa) was definitely ‘infallible’, which means, I hope you know, means that there not a single chance that she(sa) could make a mistake.”
Bibi Fatima was a human being. She was not an angel. She could have committed mistakes. EVEN Prophet Muhammad made mistakes! Why do you think God keeps telling us that he was a human being!
“Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled. And he does not say anything by his own desire. It is but a divine revelation, which is revealed to him. He has been taught by the Extremely Powerful.” (53:2-6)
Maybe Allah made some mistakes?
About the Infallibility of Bibi Fatimah (S.A.):
“And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.” (33:33)
80:01 – (The Prophet) frowned and turned away,
80:02 – Because there came to him the blind man (interrupting).
80:03 – But what could tell thee but that perchance he might grow (in spiritual understanding)?
I’m sorry, I never found any mention of the Prophet in these verses. Rather, I found that it was Hazrat Usman who turned his back.
According to Quran.. ‘anyone’ can enter paradise – regardless of their religion! Only criteria is belief in one God.
So now the Jews and Christians have started believing in one god, have they? Whatever happened to Jesus and the Trinity and Yahweh? I thought Allah classified them as Mushriks in the Quraan and guilty of the only unforgivable sin. Uh-oh!
What was the need for Islam then, my friend?
This is a joke. I swear by God. Noah could not save his son. Prophet Abraham could not save his father. Lot could not save his wife and you guys expect that Prophet Muhammad will save us? and why would he do that? Just becasue a person is a syed (shia or a sunni)?
Noah’s son Kinan was a stepson. Abraham’s father was Tarukh, not Azar. Azar was his uncle but he has been called Abraham’s father in the Quran. But then again, it was translated by humans. And how does Lot’s wife enter his ancestry? Was she also his father or son (nauzobillah)?
I never said that being a descendant of the Prophet (S.A.W.W.) will help me. Mr. Ash asked me and I replied, that’s it. You are drawing assumptions from it yourself, my friend.
As for Prophet’s (S.A.W.W.) intervention:
“We sent no messenger save that he should be obeyed by Allah’s leave. And if, when they had wronged themselves, they had but come unto thee and asked forgiveness of Allah, and asked forgiveness of the Messenger, they would have found Allah Forgiving, Merciful.” (4:64)
“So how will it be when We bring a witness from each nation (religion), and We bring you (O dear Prophet Mohammed – peace and blessings be upon him) as a witness and a watcher over them?” (4:41)
Wrong. No one ‘inherits’ prophethood. Its God will whom he chooses for prophethood.
Please read again, I never said Prophethood is hereditary, although if you study the lineage of the prophets, you’ll find that each prophet was either the son or father of another prophet. There is a continuous line of prophets from Adam which bifurcates into two after Abraham (A.S.). One line continues in the children of Isaac (A.S.), from whom came Jacob (A.S.), Joseph (A.S.), Zachariah (A.S.), Imran (A.S.), Yahya (A.S.) and Jesus (A.S.). And the other continues from Ishmael (A.S.) which leads to Muhammad (S.A.W.W.). You won’t find any prophet apart from this lineage.
I know, the point that will be raised here is that of Rasoolullah (S.A.W.W.) but for that you need to study the concept of Prophethood. There are two types: Prophet-for-the-people (Nabi-e-Natiq [Isaac's lineage]) and Prophet-for-self (Nabi-e-Batin [Ishmael's lineage]). Won’t go into the details here, I’m not a preacher or scholar.
Hazrat Suleiman (A.S.) inherited one thousand horses from Hazrat Daud (A.S.). The Quran stands testament to the fact that Hazrat Yahya (A.S.) was the heir of Hazrat Zakariya (A.S), Hazrat Yousuf (A.S.) was the heir of Hazrat Yaqoob (A.S) and Hazrat Ishaq (A.S.) was the heir of Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S). Rasoolullah (S.A.W.W.) inherited five camels, one herd of sheep, one slave Shiqran, a sword named Masoor, house and a maid named Um-me-Aiman.
There is no information in Quran like that wherein worldly inheritance was discussed.
“And Solomon was David’s heir. And he said: O mankind! Lo! we have been taught the language of birds, and have been given (abundance) of all things. This surely is evident favour.” (27:16)
Now if Solomon did not inherit prophethood from David, what exactly does Allah mean by ‘heir’?
Quran states that Prophet Muhammad was not a foreseer nor had knowledge of unseen (ilm e ghaib)
“And your companion is not insane. And indeed he saw him (Gabriel) on the clear horizon. And this Prophet is not miserly upon the hidden.” (81:23-24)
God’s opinion stands diametrically opposite to what shias an sunnis believe in.
God does not have an opinion. He has knowledge, and authority, which he chooses not to exercise. Having an opinion makes him vulnerable.
Funny book, isn’t the Quran?
You see, to understand each and every verse of the Quran, you have to know it’s background, when it was revealed, who was present, etc. The Quran is not a human text, it is Allah’s word. Understanding it is not as simple as just reading it. Each and every verse has multiple meanings and implications.
According to Ayatullah Khoei, each verse of the Quraan has one visible meaning and at least seven hidden meanings!
So you see, understanding what the Quran says is not an easy task. A vast ocean of knowledge is required to understand it.
@Ash: Man you’re making life hard for yourself!
@PostMan
Assertion 7 – Prophet Muhammad was a foreseer. He knew what will happen to his grandson.
Quran states that Prophet Muhammad was not a foreseer nor had knowledge of unseen (ilm e ghaib)
Not writing a ’scholarly’ answer as such, just a small logic:
1. The Qur’an is the word of Allah and is packed miraculously with every single event which had happened centuries ago or will happen till the Day of Judgment. (Agree?)
2. Huzoor-e-Akram(saww) was the greatest scholar of the Holy Qur’an and, thus, knew meaning, and implications – otherwise, tafseer – of every single verse of it.
3. Juxtaposing the above both, we get that Muhammad(saww) knew each and every thing which had happened centuries before, or are (were?, according to your belief) yet to happen.
Worked?
@SAWJ
Thnx for answering on for me.. the objections (assertions?) the PostMan delivered to this bloggie
@SAWJ (but, addresses others
)
Quoting: You see, to understand each and every verse of the Quran, you have to know it’s background, when it was revealed, who was present, etc. The Quran is not a human text, it is Allah’s word. Understanding it is not as simple as just reading it. Each and every verse has multiple meanings and implications.
Ali, c’mon! Who are you speaking to? Do you think who they are followers of?
Don’t you remember Qirtaas incident? So, it’s we – the Shias – who truly believe that there has to be someone like a Guide – in our case, Imam(as) – who could explain to us, the naaqisul aql, the hidden, and obvious, meanings of the Qur’an. Otherwise, they would go with their ‘man’ who said (and they believe, I guess, as the careless citations by the PostMan show): “Hasbana kitaaballah“! (For us, the Book of Allah will suffice (implying that we do not need any guide in order to understand it).
BTW, quite detailed answer. Jazaak Allah
(Poor me is a bit busy these days;ergo, couldn’t come over to answer the Mailman… uh, i mean, the PostMan)
I was sure of typos in the above reply
I’ll be more specific so that you could reply to them.
1 – Shahada
You quoted verse 7:158 for me in my quote of 3:18. Shias and sunnis both have a kalima – both of them are not in Quran. The verse that I quoted mentions the shahada, as it should be, from God himself. I guess we both believe Him to be the ultimate source right? Verse 7:158, just like many verses in Quran, is telling us to obey the prophet. It does not suffice as your reply.
2 – Bibi fatima and Prophets infallibility
You quoted 53:2-6, again which does not serve the purpose of discussion. When God say ‘Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled’ – He means that what prophet is uttering in the form of revelations from God, he is not insane.
Regarding infallibility of BiBi Fatima, you quote “And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.” (33:33).
Complete the whole verse brother.
33:33 – And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.
Its a guidance for women closer to the Prophet, hardly a sign of infallibility. In fact it gives more credence to the statement that they were humans and could commit mistakes. Why would Allah tell them how to behave when supposedly they wont be committing any mistakes?
Regarding my quoted verses in which (supposedly) prophet turned away from a blind man when he approached him, you say “I’m sorry, I never found any mention of the Prophet in these verses. Rather, I found that it was Hazrat Usman who turned his back.” Lovely. You could not find prophet in it but found hazrat usman instead. And how did you do that? And why did you not reply to my other quoted verse in which Prophet is being specifically asked to refrain from banning a certain thing? Which character would you place there in place of him?
3 – Anyone Can Enter Heaven – Even Jews
Could not digest the quranic verses eh?
fret not. Nobody in shia sunni fraternity can. Read again my brother. I quote “According to Quran.. ‘anyone’ can enter paradise – regardless of their religion! Only criteria is belief in one God”. Anyone believing in trinity or believing a prophet to be equal to Gods characteristics – is destined to the same fate as you stated. Muslims consider themselves superior race, just like Jews do. Anyone who commits shirk – is out. Even a muslim committing shirk is out. A christian who believes there is only ONE god.. will enter paradise no matter how much muslims protest :p And verse 2:62 is testament to this. So tell me, can God commit mistake?
4 – Prophets Lineage
When I wrote ‘Noah could not save his son..’ you replied that it was not Noahs real son or that Abrahams real father was someone else. Brother, focus again. Why God did not tell us what you are telling instead? Because the issue is not ‘for whom the request’ is being made rather ‘who is making’ the request! ‘Noah’ could not save X, ‘Abraham’ can not save X, ‘Lot’ could not save X, Prophet Muhammad cannot save anyone. get it?
You say “I never said that being a descendant of the Prophet (S.A.W.W.) “. My reply was a general reply to anyone considering himself/ herself superior to others being descendants of Prophet.
5 – Prophets Intervention
Explain what is ‘intervention’. And I have the verse prepared for your reply.
6 – Hereditary Prophethood
You say you did not mean that prophethood is hereditary. My apologies, I thought wrong. BUT sons being Prophets as their fathers were, does not indicate that it is considered a superior thing by God. It was His wish that a son should be a prophet – and so be it. No one is given precedence just because he is a son of a prophet.
7 – Prophet Muhammad as Foreseer.
You quote “”And your companion is not insane. And indeed he saw him (Gabriel) on the clear horizon. And this Prophet is not miserly upon the hidden.” (81:23-24)” Read verse 22 before it and verse 25 after it and it will tell you that revelation of Quran is being mentioned. It does not say anything about prophet being the foreseer. You dont trust this verse wherein God himself asks prophet to say this? “6:50 – Say: I do not say to you, I have with me the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, ..”
8 – Quran
your quote “The Quran is not a human text, it is Allah’s word. Understanding it is not as simple as just reading it. Each and every verse has multiple meanings and implications.”
Had it required specialized knowledge then rest assured it would have been specifically sent for religious scholars and God would not have asked you, everywhere in Quran, ‘Do you not think, do you not take heed?’ So read four yourself Quran a bit instead of feedings from religious scholars and leave the hidden meanings for later.. they are by definition hidden.
Moderation blues!!
Brother Aamir.. I guess its only a message. I can see your reply. I think you can see my comment too?
AamirRiaz: “Not writing a ’scholarly’ answer as such, just a small logic:
1. The Qur’an is the word of Allah and is packed miraculously with every single event which had happened centuries ago or will happen till the Day of Judgment. (Agree?)
2. Huzoor-e-Akram(saww) was the greatest scholar of the Holy Qur’an and, thus, knew meaning, and implications – otherwise, tafseer – of every single verse of it.
3. Juxtaposing the above both, we get that Muhammad(saww) knew each and every thing which had happened centuries before, or are (were?, according to your belief) yet to happen.
Worked?”
Sorry. It does not. How about following an even simple thing than that? Verse 6:50? “Say: I do not say to you, I have with me the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, ..” ??
I will not bother to answer your comment brother PostMan. I see already that it’s fruitless. Plus my comments at the end have gone unheeded. No problem.
Just an advice and a question:
Advice: Do study the Christian faith my friend. And the Jewish one too. If anyone can go into heaven then it’s not necessary to be a Muslim, is it?
Question: Does the Quran explain why the first verse sits in the middle of the Quran? Chapter 96 to be exact? Shouldn’t it be in the beginning?
As you wish my brother. I had hardly thought of it as fruitless and I was expecting a discussion. Anyways, may God bless you peace and happiness.
By the way I replied to your comments as a whole under ‘Quran’ – I wont deny I missed out something.
Regarding your question… Read verse 2:62 again and again. Also read 5:69 if you want to.. ANYONE can enter heaven provided he believes in Oneness of God. Yes! you don’t have to be a muslim (brand name) per se.. A hindu.. who says he believes in One lord.. will have his recompense from Allah. Its Allah’s promise. (Islam is submission to God)
Regarding your second question. Honestly I do not know, neither Quran I guess specifies why Suras are in a particular order. But then again.. Quran also does not tell us about preventive measures for cyber pornography now does it?
Peace brother
Anyone can enter heaven provides he believes in the Oneness of God. What I don’t understand bro is how do Christians, Jews and Hindus fall into this category? They don’t believe in one God, as far as I know.
Honestly I do not know, neither Quran I guess specifies why Suras are in a particular order. But then again.. Quran also does not tell us about preventive measures for cyber pornography now does it?
When the Quran cannot specify somethings about itself, how can it be trusted to specify many other things? This only means that the Quran does not hold all, does it?
You can not understand because you have been told, as I have been, that only muslims will enter paradise and ’submitters’ can only be muslims.
22:40 – … And had there not been Allah’s repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques in which Allah’s name is much remembered; and surely Allah will help him who helps His cause; most surely Allah is Strong, Mighty.
God is saying that His name is taken in churches, synagogues and not only mosques. Why would He say so if everyone was a ‘mushrik’?
You are not getting it brother… A hindu does not automatically mean mushrik. What if he believes in only one God? Labels don’t matter.. its what you do that does.
Verse 2:62 and 5:69 are great verses
SAWJ: “When the Quran cannot specify somethings about itself, how can it be trusted to specify many other things? This only means that the Quran does not hold all, does it?”
What do you think of this verse?
6:114 – Say: “Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? – when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail.” …
?
See. Everything that ‘needed’ to be told.. has been detailed. Rest is your wish.. whatever you want to extract out of it 
God says its detailed. You think its not? I guess I’ll go with God
Yes indeed. But do they believe in “Allah”? As we need to? What about Jesus being the son of God? Doesn’t Allah say that he has no son in Surah-e-Akhlaq?
And I don’t mean that being a Hindu means being a Mushrik, only being a polytheist does so. Now Hindus are polytheists, aren’t they?
And I need some clarification and help on this brother:
When the Quran cannot specify somethings about itself, how can it be trusted to specify many other things? This only means that the Quran does not hold all, does it?
Thanks.
Oh, sorry, your comment went into moderation.
But I don’t see the order of the Quran explained in detail, in the Quran, my friend. That is leading to confusion.
O bhai kidher phuns gaya hay!
Anyone who says there is a son of God, or says someone is equal in qualities to God is out of Gods favour! Be that christian, jew, or muslim! He committed shirk.
If a person living in a remote tribe of Congo says there is only One lord of this universe called HonkaBonka, he does good deeds and is aware that his acts will judged.. is saved! Simple.
SAWJ: “But I don’t see the order of the Quran explained in detail, in the Quran, my friend. That is leading to confusion.”
Why do you need the order of Quran explained? Is it necessary? Perhaps God did not find the need to tell you that its needed to understand Quran. 6:114 says its detailed… I say its detailed. God also did not tell you how to sleep did He?
Anyone who says there is a son of God, or says someone is equal in qualities to God is out of Gods favour! Be that christian, jew, or muslim! He committed shirk.
That’s what I was saying.
If a person living in a remote tribe of Congo says there is only One lord of this universe called HonkaBonka, he does good deeds and is aware that his acts will judged.. is saved! Simple.
What if that HonkaBonka has attributes that clash with those of Allah’s? Zoroastrians believe in one God na, the Sun God? Budhists, Jains? Are they all on the right path? If people were already on the right path, why did Allah feel the need for Islam?
Why do you need the order of Quran explained? Is it necessary? Perhaps God did not find the need to tell you that its needed to understand Quran. 6:114 says its detailed… I say its detailed. God also did not tell you how to sleep did He?
What if one verse lies in Surah Al-Baqara and the other is in Aal-e-Imran? Or Nisa? Or Takweer? Or Dahar? If it’s distributed in such a way, how can it be understood easily?
Plus, when was the Quran compiled? I don’t think it was Rasoolullah (S.A.W.W.) who had it done, did he? I could not find a reference to it brother.
“What if that HonkaBonka has attributes that clash with those of Allah’s?”
If the person thinks there is One Lord of all the universe.. then call it Allah or HonkaBonka it does not matter and their attributes wont clash. If they clash.. it means they are two separate entities.
“What if one verse lies in Surah Al-Baqara and the other is in Aal-e-Imran? … If it’s distributed in such a way, how can it be understood easily?”
You don’t need such arrangement brother to understand Quran. I have been reading Quran for quite sometime now. These are ‘accusations’ against Quran so that you don’t read it. How many times have you read it with translation my brother?
“Plus, when was the Quran compiled? I don’t think it was Rasoolullah (S.A.W.W.) who had it done, did he? I could not find a reference to it brother. :(”
Compiling, its order, its explanation is the task of God – not even of Prophet. How do I know? because God told me so..
75:16 – Move not thy tongue concerning the (Qur’an) to make haste therewith.
75:17 – It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it:
75:18 – But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated):
75:19 – Nay more, it is for Us to explain it
“If people were already on the right path, why did Allah feel the need for Islam?”
Another misconception in muslims – that Prophet Muhammad ‘invented’ Islam. Islam means submission to will of God. Abraham was the first Prophet who was called ‘muslim’. Prophet Muhammad was advised to follow ‘religion of Abraham’. He was not given anything new.
22:78 – And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive. He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation);
2:130 – And who turns away from the religion of Abraham but such as debase their souls with folly?
If the person thinks there is One Lord of all the universe.. then call it Allah or HonkaBonka it does not matter and their attributes wont clash. If they clash.. it means they are two separate entities.
Indeed they are. How many people believe in one god with all the attributes of Allah? Why was Islam needed when there already were believers present? Allah could have promoted their religion.
You don’t need such arrangement brother to understand Quran. I have been reading Quran for quite sometime now. These are ‘accusations’ against Quran so that you don’t read it. How many times have you read it with translation my brother?
If I take a book, jumble up all the sentences, would it still make sense? I’m not accusing the Quran, and I have read it, even the translation. But my problem lies with the fact that it was translated by humans. You will find many things in parentheses “( )” in the Quran that were put there by the translators. How did they know what to put in those parentheses?
One example is the Hazrat Usman verses I pointed out above. You can find different translations for those verses and some connect the Prophet to them and some connect Hazrat Usman. Now which one will you trust?
Compiling, its order, its explanation is the task of God – not even of Prophet. How do I know? because God told me so..
75:16 – Move not thy tongue concerning the (Qur’an) to make haste therewith.
75:17 – It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it:
75:18 – But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated):
75:19 – Nay more, it is for Us to explain it
Then God made mistakes regarding the order he revealed those verses in, I believe. And if God told so, where in the Quran is it mentioned that put such and such surah here and another over there? I don’t believe Quran says anything like that then how did God tell to do it the way it is?
Another misconception in muslims – that Prophet Muhammad ‘invented’ Islam. Islam means submission to will of God. Abraham was the first Prophet who was called ‘muslim’. Prophet Muhammad was advised to follow ‘religion of Abraham’. He was not given anything new.
If he wasn’t given anything new, why was he a Rasool? If there already was a complete religion before, what was the need for Islam? Prophet Abraham could have been the last Prophet but that is not so. There are many many Prophets after him, two of whom were given books, the Injeel and the Quran. Prophet Abraham, on the other hand, was not. Were all the Prophets after him called Muslims too? And does Quran say that he introduced a new religion? If not, then there must be Muslims before him too.
Pickthal’s translation of 22:78 uses the word ‘faith’ for this verse. Ahmad Raza Khan uses ‘religion’. Yousuf Ali uses ‘cult’. All three have different meanings. Which is correct?
“Indeed they are. How many people believe in one god with all the attributes of Allah? ”
God has the stats. Frankly, protect your rear :p Dont worry about others.
“Allah could have promoted their religion.”
Thats what He is doing
“But my problem lies with the fact that it was translated by humans. You will find many things in parentheses “( )” in the Quran that were put there by the translators. How did they know what to put in those parentheses?”
Read multiple translations
Frankly I dont read what is in the paranthesis.
“One example is the Hazrat Usman verses I pointed out above. You can find different translations for those verses and some connect the Prophet to them and some connect Hazrat Usman. Now which one will you trust?”
I quoted that in context of Prophet committing a mistake. If you think that verse does not fit there.. so be it. I made a reference to Sura Tehreem. That should do the purpose for that context. The point here is not to ‘hide’ from the issue but to seek guidance.
“Then God made mistakes regarding the order he revealed those verses in, I believe. ”
Good for you for you believe so!
“And if God told so, where in the Quran is it mentioned that put such and such surah here and another over there?”
He no where mentioned so. He says He’ll compile and promulgate it.. I say He compiled and Promulgated it! Whatver method He adopted I am not concerned with that
“If he wasn’t given anything new, why was he a Rasool? If there already was a complete religion before, what was the need for Islam?”
Ask God why He made Muhammad a Prophet brother! It was His wish. God tells us that His teachings had been made available to the generations of humans – they kept losing it or it got corrupted. Quran is the Final Testament – no guidance in form of revelation after it. The End.
“Pickthal’s translation of 22:78 uses the word ‘faith’ for this verse. Ahmad Raza Qadri uses ‘religion’. Yousuf Ali uses ‘cult’. All three have different meanings. Which is correct?”
Call it ‘millat e Ibrahim’… so what? He was called the first muslim and Prophet Muhammad was told to follow him. Concern yourself with that. (damn.. now I know what will you ask next.. and it’ll get longer)
@SAWJ
Guess what..I am back for a bit.
Well I am not making life difficult for myself. I am making life difficult for you.
Anyway, I think my brother Postman is having a very good discussion with you so I wont come in betweeen of it now.
But I will say that Allah SWT has said that there are things which are beyond our undestanding and we should leave them that way and not question them. There are things in the universe which are beyond human comphrehension and we should just leave them the way they are.
When anyone starts questioing Allah authority, HIS books concreteness, HIS prophet’s credibility then it leaves no doubt that imaan is weak……
Faith is another word for religion and Cult means a religious group so they all mean the same. STOP the drama and sort your believes out. Read the right kalma, says the right namaz, avoid drama and fabrication and you will soon stop being under all the dilema’s….
God has the stats. Frankly, protect your rear :p Dont worry about others.
That is indeed what I’m trying to do.
I quoted that in context of Prophet committing a mistake. If you think that verse does not fit there.. so be it. I made a reference to Sura Tehreem. That should do the purpose for that context. The point here is not to ‘hide’ from the issue but to seek guidance.
That is indeed what I’m doing. The Quran doesn’t seem self-explanatory here as evident from the comments above. There are contradictions everywhere. Allah says above the Prophet does nothing off his own accord, yet he made mistakes. This puts the blame on Allah for misguiding the Prophet, does it?
Read multiple translations
Frankly I dont read what is in the paranthesis.
I saw the Prophet’s name in the parentheses in the translations. If you don’t read the parentheses, how do you know it was the Prophet who turned his back?
He no where mentioned so. He says He’ll compile and promulgate it.. I say He compiled and Promulgated it! Whatver method He adopted I am not concerned with that
You should be. He said He compiled and promulgated it. Why in the incorrect order? If the Quran was revealed in a certain order, why not maintain that order? And since, the revelation order is not the same as the compilation order, something must’ve happened in between that changed the order. I want to know what.
Ask God why He made Muhammad a Prophet brother! It was His wish. God tells us that His teachings had been made available to the generations of humans – they kept losing it or it got corrupted. Quran is the Final Testament – no guidance in form of revelation after it. The End.
How do I ask God? Frankly, if I keep saying “Ask God” to every question I get about the Quran, let’s say from Non-Muslims, won’t they think I’m an idiot? They’ll doubt the credibility of my religion and the Quran.
Call it ‘millat e Ibrahim’… so what? He was called the first muslim and Prophet Muhammad was told to follow him. Concern yourself with that.
I don’t get it bhai. Why not just reveal the Quran to Abraham and be done with it? Why wait till Muhammad (S.A.W.W.)? Why send so many prophets after Abraham?
(damn.. now I know what will you ask next.. and it’ll get longer)
I’m only asking you to help me brother. You have studied the Quran so you can tell me. If you can help me strengthen my Iman, is there anything wrong with it?
So far, I’ve only been able to accumulate that the Quran does not hold all answers. Even about itself!
We have multiple translations by different people, each meaning something different. ‘Faith’, ‘cult’ and ‘religion’, as Mr. Ash pointed out wrongly, are not interchangeable words. Which is correct?
And seriously, if the Quran is an easy book, why send a prophet for it? Why not just reveal it to the people themselves? If Allah can send Wahi on a honey-bee, a spider, the mothers of Jesus and Moses, why not to the Quraish? And even then, why send a man who commits mistakes? Couldn’t he have made an infallible?
Frankly speaking, the claims of the Quran about it’s own authenticity won’t stand in the eyes of the non-believer. I will believe it but would a Non-Muslim?
as far as sending the quran to an everyman is concerned, a prophet is necessary since he is generally one whos character is considered by his peers to be trustworthy. for example our prophet was illiterate. and considered to be the most honest man in makkah. surely these credentials would help him in his quest since people would have a hard time accusing him of falsehood and/or saying he made it all up.
the greatest understanding of the quran can only be achieved through a mastery of arabic since a lot of things are lost in translation. i believe in MA Islamiat, arabic is a mandatory course for this very purpose.
i agree with the “honkabonka” and fallibilty theory. though my knowledge is limited, islam has always been rooted in logic. ti make one human so that people do not consider him a god makes all the sense in the world.
btw religion faith and cult are not the same. look up the definitions. islam has repeatedly been singled out as a faith, not a religion.
A religion is a set of stories, symbols, beliefs and practices, often with a supernatural quality, that give meaning to the practitioner’s experiences of life through reference to an ultimate power or reality.
Faith is a belief in the trustworthiness of an idea or person. Formal usage of the word “faith” is usually reserved for concepts of religion, as in theology, where it almost universally refers to a trusting belief in a transcendent reality, or else in a Supreme Being and said being’s role in the order of transcendent, spiritual things.
“That is indeed what I’m doing. The Quran doesn’t seem self-explanatory here as evident from the comments above. There are contradictions everywhere”
Time out bro! You are exercising your brain too much! Extrapolating way too much than is required.
How can you deduce that Quran is not self explanatory? And what contradictions? Why are you so obsessed with ordering of Suras and where is the problem do you see? Do you expect it to be Dan Browns thrillerwhere every next chapter would reveal the mystery leading to the climax at chpter 113 andepilogue in chapter 114? it wont!
He revealed the Quran in 23 years.. revealing verses as He deemed fit. Concern yourself with whole of Quran.
“I don’t get it bhai. Why not just reveal the Quran to Abraham and be done with it? Why wait till Muhammad (S.A.W.W.)? Why send so many prophets after Abraham?”
You should be asking ‘why START with Abraham at all?!’ Brother. Humans dwell on earth so humans were sent with guidance. He has been sending humans as Prophets till the time of Prophet Muhammad when the final testament was revealed.
“If Allah can send Wahi on a honey-bee, a spider, the mothers of Jesus and Moses, why not to the Quraish?”
I think He did send wahi to Quraish.. through Prophet Muhammad
“And even then, why send a man who commits mistakes? Couldn’t he have made an infallible?”
23:24 – The chiefs of the Unbelievers among his people said: “He is no more than a man like yourselves: his wish is to assert his superiority over you: if Allah had wished (to send messengers), He could have sent down angels; never did we hear such a thing (as he says), among our ancestors of old.”
6:9 – If We had made it an angel, We should have sent him as a man, and We should certainly have caused them confusion in a matter which they have already covered with confusion.
Are you confused regarding Quran or regrading what has been ingrained in you since childhood?
Sorry I wont be able to post for couple of days. I Am out of internet mercy.
Peace
Let me know when you come back bro.